Open throttle compressor surge However, the BOV cannot cure it. Nov 15, 2000 · I have had a similar problem with my bov. Compressor surge/turbo flutter happens when we are asking the turbo to operate in an area to the left of the surge line on the turbo’s compressor map. You can actually see the smoke rolling and then stop and roll again when its doing this. This mod stops compressor surge only during blow off. Blow off valve- Allows excess pressure to escape from the intake tract. might not feel as smooth letting off / might jerk, but that is becuase of the stiff spring. Jun 10, 2015 · Both turbo flutter and compressor surge occur when the air pressure after the turbo is higher than what the turbo can maintain. For now i use an ebc for daily driving, with a contoured boost map to avoid surge. Corky Bell, author of Maximum Boost has publicly stated the he's never seen a turbo damaged by off-throttle surge. Apr 24, 2021 · I could only think of maybe a clogged cat or possibly a damaged compressor wheel would bring surge on even quicker. 5bar of boost at ful That's not actually the DV venting the backpressure. A few things, compressor surge can occur under any engine conditions, open throttle or not. Compressor surge doesn't actually stop the Compressor from spinning, it just causes the air to separate from the blades and stall, like an airplane wing. This causes loss of boost pressure, thus loss of horsepower, probably bad AFR. Yes, that is on throttle compressor surge. 2012 JKUR CoD MW3 past 2001 TJ Sahara w/Snoway plow, 2001 Grand Cherokee Laredo,1998 TJ Sport w/Western plow, 1978 CJ7 350/TH400, 1979 CJ5 360/3-speed After spending days researching BOVs, BPVs, and compressor surge, watching countless videos of Boomba's BPV and compressor surge on WRXs, I'm entirely convinced Boomba's BPV does not cause compressor surge. KEYWORDS: compressor, surge, plenum, losses, pressure rise, mass flow -: ﺔﺻﻼﺨﻟﺍ Oct 20, 2014 · sirLachlan wrote:Compressor surge is a whole nother beast . Many cars in the early 90's can from the factory with no way to vent, and went 50-100K miles like that. If you can hear the flutter while your throttle plate is open, bad news. Jan 16, 2024 · This unneeded compressed air from your turbo will meet a closed throttle valve, and since the air has nowhere else to go, it will return back to the compression chamber and cause a compressor surge. Active control of surge in connection with varying speed is studied. To overcome the weakness of previous active control methods in covering compressor characteristic and throttle valve uncertainties, and also covering the effects of the pipe on the surge instability, a nonlinear dynamic Jan 5, 2021 · The flow is decreased to 3299 m 3 /hr from 6235 m 3 /hr where the compressor experiences the surge as shown in Figure 17(a) and it shows that the system is restored right after 2 cycles of the surge by opening the anti-surge valve by 33% (Figure 17(b)). Dec 10, 2022 · And if we are experiencing full throttle turbo surge by getting on the left side of the compressor map surge line, then that is something I think is worth a discussion. Common for fast spooling turbos. When we’re talking about open throttle compressor surge it is the engine itself that is the restriction. Jul 1, 2019 · The pipe length, plenum volume and throttle opening in a compression system have a considerable impact on compressor surge. Compressor surge happens when the pressure ratio across the compressor is too great for the flow occurring across it. Going sd may have allowed you the quicker spool that causes surge. 3 on holiday sale. Under heavy acceleration. plenum to move the surge line to the left side of the compressor map. I've heard this noise before when I let off but not when I'm WOT. Jan 21, 2011 · 2) You can replace the stock compressor wheel with a later model Powerstrokes compressor wheel also called a " wicked wheel " this is a direct replacement for the 99. Its purpose is to relieve pressure on the throttle and is designed to move the Su Nov 8, 2016 · The term surge should also be clarified as the term can have multiple meanings. That will kill a turbo real fast . It can't be open at idle but if you blurp the throttle you will see it open slightly, that would be ideal. One thing you could do is put a tee in the wastegate actuator line, and run it to the other nipple underneath the top part of the bov, and have two boost references on it, it Compressor surge does indeed occur when the turbo operates outside its efficiency range - and that happens when you rapidly lift of the throttle, which doesnt need a mismatched turbo/engine combination. But what you are describing the going from throttle to no throttle is not a turbo surge issue. 45:58: But other than purposefully opening the blow off valve, to vent that air under wide open throttle, the blow off valve's really not gonna save us there. DV bleeding has a similar but different sound. Common for our cars and platform. What I suspect you are hearing is a vac/boost feedback loop caused by the new Nov being close-coupled to the throttle plate and its post throttle plate boost signal . 87 rad/s), which agrees with the waterfall plot in Fig. Since tuning the car I'm getting some noticeable compressor surge, only when chopping the throttle at WOT. 8t AWP weird "lagging / surge / stutter" boost / throttle feel ? Jump to Latest 111K views 115 replies 35 participants last post by IbizaUser 2d ago Feb 9, 2009 · I have zero compressor surge when I am totally off the throttle, and very limited surge when letting off partly. This is a phenomenon that occurs when the turbocharger compressor wheel is creating more air mass than the engine can ingest. when you let off the gas and the throttle closes, the BPV opens to BY-PASS the turbo and send the air back to the intake. Unsteady time-accurate simulations Figure 5 shows the results of a mild surge cycle simulated with a throttle area of 67. Compressor Surge solutions You need to downsize the turbo CFM thruput somehow. Absolute worst case it'll increase the bearing wear in the chra (center section of the turbo), but unless the turbo is way too large for the application, the increased wear is not significant That's why I have to send excess boost somewhere else at partial throttle, to protect the turbo. There is a reason why the best tuners and manufacturers are not recommending blow-off valves for this platform while the sales men and women at the aftermarket retailers are Jan 25, 2013 · Compressor surge fix. Compressor stall is the opposite of compressor surge, where the compressor generates more air than the system can discharge, causing a blowout through the intake (read: loud bang) and causing damage to the system. The type of surge that destroys turbos is on throttle surge which I doubt he has. Jun 29, 2020 · Donny O. It will basically lower boost if you aren't WOT. We use the suction throttle valve (i. Most stock cars will never have any problems with it. Various anti surge wheels. It cna range from sounding like a turkey call to air surges that flutter. The example most can relate too is when you get off throttle, typically you hear the familiar sound of your DV venting. When i run a straight 30 psi, i just don't floor it below 4,000 rpm's. 80 a/r, T4, internal WG, internal BOV, high boost WG canister set 3 turns preload. Drove the truck some not a lot everything seemed good. This can occur when mating a large compressor to a small turbine to enhance low RPM response. Dec 24, 2023 · Correct BPVs/BOVs do not control boost they vent the excess boost so when you slam the throttle shut at WOT the boost does not cause compressor surge and stutter to occur. Version 6 STI EJ207 engine with oversize genuine STI coated forged pistons @ 8:1 comp ratio with 4340 forged rods and balanced rotating assembly, . Thevariable speed compressor characteristic is derived based on energy losses in a compressor components. The one on my car now doesnt like me to let off the gas around 0-2psi. Apr 3, 2010 · Now a BOV ONLY manages the surge generated by throttle closure, not the part/full throttle surge. Piston engine speed is decreased to throttle the compressor until surge is recorded at each compressor speed line. This means that when there is more air available then can be taken in the compressor will surge. This is why bypass valves should open on partial throttle IMMEDIATELY! According to Figure 4, it is possible to reach the maximum operating point near the intersection of the compressor surge line and the compressor characteristic curve, and given the trajectory taken by the control signal, the operating point transferring is carried out on the compressor characteristic curve indicating the feasibility and operation of the proposed method. com In the scenario of closed throttle compressor surge the throttle plate is acting as a restriction. A slow to open BPV/BOV will cause surge/stutter and if bad enough can damage the intake turbine wheel as well. I did however find this video, which leads me to believe that its harmless. Open-throttle implies there are two opposing forces acting on the turbine (exhaust trying to spool, air failing to compress), which is horrible; closed-throttle implies there's a single force acting on the turbine (air failing to compress Posted by u/[Deleted Account] - No votes and no comments Jun 22, 2011 · 1. I can provide a video if needed. Block-off plate (not harmful) or bad tune (harmful) for: [closed-throttle or open-throttle] Compressor surge (turbine 'chopping up' the air it can't compress properly); classic "STUTutututu" noise (some BOVs/BPVs can sound similar to compressor surge) Sep 25, 2012 · 1. It MUST happen when you don't have a BOV or when it's not set The bad scenario is open throttle compressor surge. Anywhere above 2,000 RPM the stock BOV will open up and make the proper hissing noise it should. Turbo Wet gas compressors operate at fixed or variable speed. Jul 12, 2018 · Getting over boost when throttle off isn't good but is fairly normal- having it with throttle open I would say is bad, so I would imagine is most likely caused by an actuator stuck closed (not allowing gas to bypass so turbo is spinning up more than expected) or a solenoid issue keeping it closed for too long. Nov 2, 2007 · a stiffer spring will make it respond better, but partial throttle might feel weird, becuase of the response. , the "PC," control valve) shown in this figure. Stock compressor has a very tolerant surge line on the Juke so if it is surging something is seriously wrong. 3. I hear it on mine and it's the same as any other turbo car I have owned. Thats a miss match of turbo wheels and you have air stalling and forcing itself backwards out the comp wheel while you are still on full boost/throttle . If you hear the stututu while accelerating this means your turbo is boosting more air than the engine can handle this type is called ”open throttle compressor surge” and its very bad for the turbo/engine Fixed speed compressors throttle compressor suction while variable speed machines use steam turbines or variable speed motors to control receiver pressure. Car cant pass cca 3000rpm with 0. Centrifugal Compressor Damaged During Surge Event Apr 29, 2008 · At part throttle shifts, personally, I feel it vents too much. closed throttle compressor surge). The BOV will cycle as part of the EFFECT of part/full throttle surge due to the boost oscillations caused INSIDE the turbo. . 6L engine, lot of boost. May 8, 2012 · A typical deep surge cycle can thus be divided into four portions: (1) deceleration; (2) reversed flow; (3) acceleration; (4) normal flow region. Compressor surge at 20 PSI will eventually destroy my turbo. The highly dynamic nature of the phenomenon limits the safe operating region and, hence, the available performance of these machines. Business, Economics, and Finance. Oct 12, 2021 · The Impossible Evo X: Part 2 – How to use a BOV to control compressor surge. Nov 7, 2022 · Wasn't particularly loud, maybe a little inconsistent, but it seemed to function and I wasn't getting compressor surge. Oct 14, 2013 · By-Pass Valve - does exactly what the name suggests. If necessary, compressor surge control systems recycle gas to ensure inlet gas flow rate is maintained above the minimum flow (surge point or line). Posted by u/FlashV12 - 1 vote and 15 comments When I go part throttle on my 135i, the forge valves hiss quite a bit until I fully open the throttle. The fact that you say it occurs during vacuum is proof . An anti-surge housing is designed to prevent compressor surge which can occur during Wide Open Throttle (WOT) conditions, not to a replace a Blow Off Valve or Bypass Valve which are designed to relieve charge air when the throttle closes. Not that I drive it hard, but it will be nice to have the extra pull after this mod. While a closed-throttle compressor surge isn’t necessarily the worst thing for your turbo, an open-throttle compressor surge is a whole different beast. Turbo pressure ratio monitoring, but stop asking questions, watch Andre instead and he'll explain the rest of how this works with a drive by wire throttle body instead of a blow off valve and why that even matters. Feb 20, 2018 · If so you can use the TPS WGDC Correction table to get rid of part throttle surge. Crypto Mar 3, 2011 · Either the turbo's hot side is too small for the application and you get surge on spool up in high gears, or the BOV doesn't open properly and you get surge when letting off the gas and the throttle plate closes, choking off the flow into the engine (in this case the BOV is supposed to open and release the pressure and let the turbo spin down Apr 22, 2014 · In case of a failure or malfunction in the inlet throttle valve, the anti-surge system could be totally ineffective. Introduction. GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. I am thinking it's just the DV noise regulating pressure to hold boost. Surge is an instability phenomenon that is known to occur in centrifugal compressors under low flow conditions. Nov 14, 2019 · Summary: I am suffering persistent open throttle compressor surge under load on my car. 9% (slightly. Anyone else experiencing any compressor surge? Feb 9, 2009 · I have zero compressor surge when I am totally off the throttle, and very limited surge when letting off partly. When this happens, the turbo is trying to force air into the cylinders faster than the engine can use it. Compressor surge that occurs at wide open throttle under high load when the turbo is cramming more air than the engine can physically take is bad, and can shorten bearing life because of the extremely high forces involved. Jun 22, 2014 · Just loaded my efi live street tune friday. Kyle Engineers has done an excellent video on full throttle compressor surge, this is the what the As such, the turbo will operate in the surge region even with the throttle open. Yes, that's called open throttle compressor surge that is caused by the fact that the turbo is quite large and it's making so much boost that the engine can't even use the amount of boost. Dec 8, 2018 · If your throttle was open and you had a surge hit the compressor, yes, you most certainly have trouble; however, this will never occur unless you have more mechanical issues. For multiple stages, there generally are recycle surge valves and a compressor surge control system for each stage. 8-11. Check out our range of forced induction gear here: https://uk. Because the main reason why open throttle compressor surge exists is because when you have high boost and low flow, the turbo is cramming air into the engine faster than the engine can use it. Due to a lack of air May 12, 2004 · Compressor surge accurs when you let off throttle and BOV doens't open or doesn't open enough in time. Also keep in mind I am NOT talking about ON throttle compressor surge, which is different and very obviously bad for the turbo. It's just boost pressure in the charge pipe getting ahead of the pressure in the manifold because the throttle plate is partially restricting full flow and this triggers the DV's to crack Without the surge controller, the compressor is clearly in surge and the peak-to-peak amplitude of the surge cycle is as high as 66 % of the equilibrium pressure rise value. Noticed in 2nd gear as it is an autox Mk2 supra. This condition causes the airflow in the compressor wheel to back up, build pressure, and sometimes stall. They are mainly used on gas motors because they have throttle bodies that close when you let off. Centrifugal compressors used in industrial applications, including steam turbine units, generally have high inertia and are less prone to surge problems. The experimental results indicated that the surge could be suppressed at the initial stages of its inception. In this event the pressure builds until the flow attempts to reverse direction and exit through the compressor, resulting in a harmful condition known as compressor surge. Installing a bypass valve between the supercharger discharge and the carburetor/throttle body prevents damaging compressor surges by diverting the undemanded charge air to Jul 23, 2020 · Compressor Surge (turbo flutter) Jump to Latest 2. My car WILL compressor surge above 5000 RPM in full boost if my throttle plate is not wide open. Any input? May 11, 2010 · td05h 20g's surge. Open-throttle compressor surge = you're destroying your turbo Closed-throttle compressor surge = ehhh, it's not as healthy as a BPV or BOV, but maybe negligible- either way worse throttle response on throttle reopen than BPV and BOV Mar 5, 2024 · I noticed that, in neutral, revving full throttle and letting off at 2,000 RPM and below, my turbo flutters significantly. My research has indicated that although compressor surge (also known as turbo flutter) is common when lifting off throttle (especially without proper blow-off valve or diverter valve solutions), it is unusual and potentially harmful when it manifests while on the Jun 25, 2017 · Hello All, just wanted to ask for some feedback on my 1jz surging at full throttle situation. Jan 1, 2014 · It has been found that the advantage using the plenum is delay occurrence the surge phenomenon, where the surge start occur at 20 % open throttle valve after connect the plenum. The anti-surge return point should be as close to the compressor as possible to better feed the anti-surge flow to compressor, and this proposed change could move the anti-surge return point away from the compressor inlet. I like how it does that on mine. No, it is not compressor surge, so no one even bring that up. carthrottle. Is this compressor surge? Posted by u/nguyen1503 - 3 votes and 9 comments After spending days researching BOVs, BPVs, and compressor surge, watching countless videos of Boomba's BPV and compressor surge on WRXs, I'm entirely convinced Boomba's BPV does not cause compressor surge. In this scenario, the turbo continues to send pressurised air into the engine that the engine simply does not have capacity for and so is sent back toward the turbo. where the throttle plate doesn't open fast enough or is set up to only react to high boost, some chatter will remain. My research has indicated that although compressor surge (also known as turbo flutter) is common when lifting off throttle (especially without proper blow-off valve or diverter valve solutions), it is unusual and potentially harmful when it manifests while Real compressor surge at acceleration example. This actually is on throttle surge, and that sound is coming from the backpressure hitting the compressor blades. 56's, 4th gen Limited seats, leaky Holley hp150 and extra fuel filters. com/watch?v=aASiqS4R9Qk --~--In this episode of Prec May 22, 2013 · Its totally normal on a turbo car as long as the surge sound isn't on wide open throttle applications. Surge occurs when the compressor is not capable of overcoming the discharge pressure imposed by the system, specifically, when the compressor operates on the low flow side of its operating range Oct 1, 2019 · The observations in Figure 11 show the strong unsteadiness of aerodynamics and compressor operation; the global effect on surge limit is visualized. As an additional bit of information here, it was pointed out to me that closed throttle flutter is actually known as A quick guide on understanding different turbo sounds and what they mean. When I hear the turbo flutter the BOV does not vent (i. When the throttle is open, and the turbocharger is making more boost than the engine can use, this causes the charge air to back up into the turbocharger while under load. The ebay knock off greddy valves are a little slower at reacting to the quick change in pressure. Oct 17, 2015 · We had noticeable surge at all light throttle, and lifting scenarios when first installed. When surge occurs in these conditions, it can be particularly severe and care should be taken when selecting a turbo that it will not operate in the surge region at full See full list on gofastbits. 1 illustrates the position of the sensors and throttle valve actuation as control input signals). I simply went down to a lighter spring, and the issue was gone instantly. For application questions, please contact BETA . Actually, severe damage of compressor surge is often related to very large transverse loads on blades and casing in its initial transient. [18] and Uhlenhake et al. The proportion of time required for each part is roughly 4%, 28%, 3%, and 65%. Feb 8, 2022 · Once the throttle actuation was optimized without the compressor ASV, two more tip-outs were tested: the reference case, in which the throttle was closed in two cycles using the anti-surge control system, and another tip-out with no ASV, where the throttle closure was designed to provide the closest operating path to the theoretical surge line Jan 26, 2021 · Open throttle compressor surge?? Jump to Latest 516 views 0 replies 1 participant last post by Baileym Jan 26, 2021 Summary: I am suffering persistent open throttle compressor surge under load on my car. A good video is still on youtube if you are unsure. I thought the bov was bad so I bought a new one. Not sure what is causing your surge, my previous turbo was a S16G with a 6cm @ 22 psi housing and don't think I had any part throttle surge. FLOW may result in stonewall, but that won't break things. I have some more testing to do, but when I manually adjust the boost down to a maximum of 10psi, the turbos no longer make the surge noise. Surge Terminology in Centrifugal Compressors: •Throttle Surge – When flow across the compressor drops till the surge line while maintaining constant pressure. It's not really surge per say, its just the turbo slowing down when the blow off valve doesn't open. You can hear it, you can feel it, and here you can see it. The A5K has the smaller . So even if this is Jul 27, 2020 · More detail on my thought process: my understanding is that compressor surge is caused by excess pressure downstream of the compressor when the throttle is slammed shut that leads to flow separation inside the compressor, and that it is alleviated by a diverter/blow off valve that releases that pressure when the throttle. This is done to prevent compressor surge. Mar 28, 2023 · Compressor is the most important tool for compression and fluid transfer in general and industrial uses, and the control of surge instability has been considered in this study. Compressor surge happens when the pressure is too high and the flow is not enough so it pushes the air out the compressor. If you don't have a bov, the puff puff sound IS compressor surge. 9K views 3 replies 3 participants last post by FoMoST Jul 23, 2020 Mar 3, 2013 · Compressor surge is when you get a boost modulation with the throttle open . The compressor throttle valve in the bypass section is fully closed. Bad. I guess there isnt a propper name for this so compressor surge isnt technically the wrong name . Diesels are throttled by fuel, not air, and have no throttle body. 3R-93, 22psi. there all the same regarding turbo sizing, i previously had a 2mm smaller compressor wheel version of this turbo, but found with the current one for the competition environment i could achieve the power i wanted with 0. Open-throttle compressor surge = you're destroying your turbo Closed-throttle compressor surge = ehhh, it's not as healthy as a BPV or BOV, but maybe negligible- either way worse throttle response on throttle reopen than BPV and BOV While fully developed compressor surge is axisymmetric, its initial phase is not necessarily axisymmetric. I've yet to find ANY case of a turbo that was damaged by said phenomenon (that wasn't misdiagnosed). When pulling my toy hauler up a hill my turbo surges at about 22# boost and I have to feather the throttle. Oct 14, 2009 · the problem you are describing i dont think is compressor surge, compressor surge is when you let off the gas (no matter what gear) and you hear a psh psh psh psh psh this is caused by when the throttle plate closes and the air has no where to escape. youtube. To prevent compressor surge a valve fitment of diameter valve will do the trick Apr 3, 2006 · Don't assume that this mod will stop surge completely, because surge happens under different conditions. 5-2003 trucks, you may loose 1-2psi with doing so but it will cure the surge 99% of the time, youll also hear such names as Banks high flow compressor wheel etc. So its usually not an issue unless you chop the throttle at high Feb 1, 2010 · I saw this definition of Compressor Surge from a previous thread: TurboByGarrett. ** Not sure if the rules Jan 25, 2013 · Compressor surge fix. It's that air hitting the blades that makes that sound. If it goes chooo on throttle lift off and lower boost as your turbo is trying to push more air through the engine than it can exhaust. There is a well known sound/pace for surge. Oct 19, 2005 · ok, heres my complete setup, unfortunately i dont have any data logs to show you but power a/f ratios are 11. 85 exhaust housing on it. Tiny turbine, big compressor wheel, 1. The difference is that compressor surge occurs while you're on the throttle and compressor blades in the turbo stalls. Nov 28, 2018 · I just ordered an anti-surge compressor wheel for my 7. outlet static pressure or reducing the throttle area is equivalent. If necessary, compressor surge control systems recycle gas to ensure inlet gas flow rate is maintained above the min- May 24, 2020 · Compressor surge occurs whenever turbo boost pressure is high and the airflow is low . First off, open-throttle compressor surge will damage your turbo (opposing forces acting on the turbine), where closed-throttle compressor Nov 19, 2024 · Surge is a violent physical phenomenon that occurs in centrifugal compressor systems with the potential to cause significant damage to the compressor. DV pulse will sound a bit different. This has 2 benefitsit prevents compressor surge and at the same time utilizes that pressurized air to keep the turbo spooled when shifting. So even if this is After installing a k&n air intake and Turbosmart XS blow off valve on my 2013 v turbo, I’m getting some dreaded open throttle compressor surge when… Since then, I've been noticing some faint turbo flutter on letting off the throttle under very light load (most often has been in 2nd gear when releasing the throttle around 2000-2500 RPM). Mar 31, 2018 · Look into "closed" vs "open" throttle compressor surge on modern turbochargers. I find it hard to believe that it's compressor surge because all of this is at fairly low loads and engine speeds. Your turbo is providing more boost than the car can utilize. In that instance the turbo is providing more boost Dec 17, 2024 · Full throttle compressor surge is much more damaging because the forces involved are greater. 19 . Figure 10 shows the average velocity at compressor exit during deep surge cycle in Day’s experiments. Jul 11, 2008 · Compressor surge is when you chop the throttle and the turbo is still moving so much air that it blows backwards through the compressor. Posted on October 12, 2021 May 19, 2022; by Daniel O'Donnell; On partial throttle, lower revs, my Evo X has turbocharger compressor surge. I couldn’t find any youtube videos of damaged turbos specifically from off throttle surge. Also, it gets into a flutter at part throttle shifting with light or zero boost. Mar 29, 2010 · if it only happens when letting off the throttle its compressor surge. Specifics currently: 1jzgte stock internals BW EFR 7163 . e. 9 in the high power areas. My 20g surges horribly below 4,000 rpm's, unless i keep boost under 20 psi. 8mm stainless steel STI head gaskets, stock STI version 6 heads with mild clean-up of ports and stock Oct 2, 2017 · Note 2: We touch on the difference between open and closed throttle flutter. I recently tuned the car with EVO. Absolute worst case it'll increase the bearing wear in the chra (center section of the turbo), but unless the turbo is way too large for the application, the increased wear is not significant Oct 14, 2013 · By-Pass Valve - does exactly what the name suggests. When I had my greddy rs mounted in the drivers side fender like you, I had some serious compressor surge and the bov would only stay open for a split second. com - FAQ's "Compressor surge is when the air pressure after the compressor is actually higher than what the compressor itself can physically maintain. here an example of it Jun 3, 2011 · 2. May 22, 2013 · Its totally normal on a turbo car as long as the surge sound isn't on wide open throttle applications. 8. And Im not saying it surges when I let off the throttle, I can hammer down and once it gets up to 20-30 LBS (mid to full throttle) it starts to surge. [7] A chain reaction of compressor surge is the flameout of a jet engine. [19] adjusted the volume of a chamber at the downstream of a compressor and found that deep surge occurred in the case of large volume and there was no apparent surge in the case of small volume. Oct 4, 2018 · On the other hand, if you hear turbo flutter when you’re on the power - known as open-throttle compressor surge - then brace for big bills. Compressor surge does indeed occur when the turbo operates outside its efficiency range - and that happens when you rapidly lift of the throttle, which doesnt need a mismatched turbo/engine combination. Surging is on throttle, off throttle it’s technically also surge but the additional wear is negligible. I had to reduce my intake advance in low load 2k-4k rpm areas since the stocker tends to crack open under part throttle for improved Oct 17, 2015 · The surge he has is typical throttle lift surge, the least dangerous variety, and can be run for a very long time with no ill effects on the turbo. If you are running a Tial Q, use the black spring, it will have the BOV open at idle, but that is fine, the throttle blade is closed, and the charge pipe is not under vacuum. But why would I get it with the Livernois 93 performance tune but others don’t? Is there something I can upgrade to fix the issue or is it maybe a bad wastegate/bov… sorry, I’m a YouTube mechanic and slowly learning more about turbos and such. Jul 16, 2007 · Compressor surge occurs when flow exceeds consumption. For example, if you're accelerating through 3rd gear and surge happens, there is nothing ANY blow off valve can do to stop surge because blow off valves stay shut during mid-gear This type of surge is called ”closed throttle compressor surge” and its not dangerous but like i said it will wear the turbo faster. May 16, 2022 · The turbo is spinning unbelievably fast and charged air hitting it will not cause it to suddenly reverse direction or cause any significant damage, if any damage at all to begin with. I had to reduce my intake advance in low load 2k-4k rpm areas since the stocker tends to crack open under part throttle for improved Jan 16, 2024 · This unneeded compressed air from your turbo will meet a closed throttle valve, and since the air has nowhere else to go, it will return back to the compression chamber and cause a compressor surge. Fink et al. 6 is a partial answer to the problem of excessive power demand on the compressor s motor driver. Actually start and stop very quickly just for an instant. My research has indicated that although compressor surge (also known as turbo flutter) is common when lifting off throttle (especially without proper blow-off valve or diverter valve solutions), it is unusual and potentially harmful when it manifests while May 31, 2018 · I have one person telling me it's open throttle compressor surge (which can kill my turbo and engine), and another telling me it's just the DV noise lol. This is a heavily discussed topic on the forums, and there's a few that get really deep into it. it doesnt open at all so instead I just have to roll out of the throttle instead of dropping my foot off the gas. Dec 31, 2007 · In that video it sounds like compressor surge (the fluttering) the first couple times when letting off at low load and then seems to open fine when coming off boost. You just have to get the right spring rate. Aug 26, 2022 · Particularly if we actually run a compressor wheel into surge which is off to the left hand side of the surge line under wide open throttle or full power operation, because of the higher loading that occurs at that point, that can very quickly do a lot of serious damage to your turbocharger… If the bleed air valve fails shut, compressor stall can sometimes occur at full throttle. Jan 14, 2013 · When I turn the box up past maybe level 5, it will surge if it is medium to full throttle. Diverter valve has nothing to do with it, I've driven the Juke with the diverter completely blocked off and it didn't Jul 27, 2023 · Definitely think it’s open throttle compressor surge then. Mar 26, 2013 · With the throttle 100% open (foot to the floor) in 2nd, 3rd or 4th gear, and at 2500-3000 rpm's, I get a fluttering noise. Feb 8, 2015 · 2008 Ram 3500, Mega Laramie 4x4, Smarty, H&S Overdrive, S465 2nd gen swap, 100hp nozzles, grid heater delete, 22. First off, open-throttle compressor surge will damage your turbo, where closed-throttle compressor surge will not. So some of that boost is coming back into the compressor. Mar 4, 2024 · Due to its ease of design, stability guarantees, and optimality, the LQR controller was chosen to stabilize the compressor effectively and suppress rotating stall and surge limit cycles through throttle valve actuation (Fig. The BOV functions properly at all times while driving. In some circumstances a surge occurs during a wide open throttle and not when closing the throttle and the reason is simple; the engine cannot take all the air. Its usually a fluttering whistle type sound. Jan 21, 2009 · I suggest being careful with the throttle even if you have a functional bov. However, in some cases, i. 5's, 4. Compressor OEMs can provide inertia data for the wheel (impeller), rotor and driver. Posted by u/Olroy1234 - 2 votes and 9 comments Nov 8, 2021 · A couple of options for turbo surge: wicked wheel 2 kc turbo wheel both a replacement and a mroe $$$ drop in wheel/rod kit. The use of the compressor suction throttle valve will partly offset the increase in the amp load on the compressor s motor driver, which Check out our newest video: "EcoBoost Ford Mustang Performance Upgrade Turbocharger" https://www. Diesels arent too bad for it since they dont have any sort of throttle body but it is still entirely possible to have compressor surge on a diesel. the truck will surge. I am suffering persistent open throttle compressor surge under load on my car. Oct 25, 2018 · At least two valves in parallel are used to provide redundancy, particularly because surge valves might not open after sustained operation in closed position, where stiction from seal or seat friction is greatest. Get the same compressor surge noise The only issue you could get with a diesel engine with compressor surge is under that full throttle application if the turbo sizing isn't correct, running into surge under wide open throttle. Compressor surge is not a new issue in the drag racing world where the large turbo and small engine (small capacity) game was probably created, but for those circuit racing who want the benefits of a big turbo without the downside, generally being turbo lag and poor response, it generally is no worth the trade off. com/collec After spending days researching BOVs, BPVs, and compressor surge, watching countless videos of Boomba's BPV and compressor surge on WRXs, I'm entirely convinced Boomba's BPV does not cause compressor surge. Fixed speed compressors throttle compressor suction while variable speed machines use steam turbines or variable speed motors to control receiver pressure. 3 Hz (45. • To prevent such occurrence, the bypass valve is open before reaching the surge point May 8, 2009 · Compound this, the wastegate pops open and SLOWS the compressor wheel---MOVING THE SURGE LINE AS WELL! The whole thing to understand is the way to stop surge is to throw FLOW to the compressor. As long as the comp surge isn’t happening at wide open throttle or at super high boost pressures you should be just fine. The frequency of the surge oscillation is 7. Today I got on the throttle pretty hard. Dec 1, 2010 · The nature and causes of compressor surge could cover an entire topic on their own, but for the purposes of this discussion, compressor surge is a condition that can occur when the throttle is closed on a turbo car where no DV is present. There is a limited amount of air the engine can use at any given time. Look into "closed" vs "open" throttle compressor surge on modern turbochargers. Figure 41. Note, we're talking about compressor/turbo surge at wide open throttle here. Jul 17, 2011 · Nothing in your link makes reference to damage caused by off-throttle compressor surge. Wastegate flutter accurs during boost gain (mainly when peak boost is reached) under throttle and is a quick sound (similar to a pressure cooker in some cases). If you have surge on a stage 2 setup with the stock bypass valve you have a mechanical problem as long as the tune isn't totally awful and chances are it's fine. I am only referring to OFF throttle surge. But compressor surge at low RPM and low boost because the BPV/BOV is stuck (or non-existent) does almost negligible damage. 3BAR less, but it is less suited to road use and if specking for mainly road use i would go back to the previous smaller compressor wheel version. Both drive the compressor towards the surge line and lead to the same compressor speedline characteristic. -----TIME STAMPS: 0:00 - What Is Compressor Surge? First of all, if you're hearing compressor surge, it's almost certainly closed-throttle compressor surge, which is not nearly as bad as open-throttle. it's making it's causing the compressor to stall and it makes that compressor surge noise. I think it's just the BOV bouncing off the column of air in the intake tract. Sep 28, 2010 · The noise is in fact the air compressed by the turbo passing back through the compressor wheel of the turbo after the airflow is abruptly halted by the throttle plate closing, called compressor surge. ypmpyux pil unwtas crep kpnfpmwrf eakf vub fqmgor ega dzkwkka

Open throttle compressor surge. I've heard this noise before when I let off.